DW Interviewed Ugandan opposition chief, Bobi Wine. Right here is the transcript.
Liz Shoo: Properly, the person you simply heard, Bobi Wine, is becoming a member of me stay from Uganda. Bobi Wine, welcome to the 77 %.
Bobi Wine: Thanks for having me on the 77 %, I am comfortable to be right here.
Shoo: And we’re comfortable to have you ever. So, the previous couple of weeks will need to have been very intense for you. What has occurred for the reason that election outcomes have been introduced?
Wine: Properly, I’d fairly not say the phrase tight for me, as a result of all the pieces I do, I do for and on behalf of the folks of Uganda. So perhaps the query ought to have been, how has it been for you, the folks of Uganda. It has been hell. It has been such a problem for the reason that election, which turned out to be essentially the most fraudulent election within the historical past of Uganda. There was nice persecution. Tons of of younger folks, younger women and men supporting the folks energy motion and the nationwide platform, the motion and social gathering which I lead, have been kidnapped by the federal government.
Many have been murdered in detention. Others have been tortured gravely. The females have been raped and others have had their eyes, fingernails reduce out and others have truly been castrated. So, it has been hell. Nonetheless, I have to additionally say that the extra the operation, the extra the resistance, the folks of Uganda have turned as much as be extra resistant and extra assertive, demanding for his or her rights, demanding for his or her election victory, however most significantly, demanding for freedom.
Editor’s word: In line with Human Rights Watch, opposition members and supporters have been subjected to police and state violence. Particular studies relating to rape, castration and the elimination of physique components couldn’t be verified.
Shoo: So what you are telling us is admittedly horrific, what is occurring to the folks of Uganda and also you say that you’re going to preserve urgent on and preserve resisting. Now, let’s check out the entire of Africa. We reached out to our folks on Fb and requested them what the political state of affairs is like of their nation. So, let me simply check out one remark right here that we’ve from Frank Illhah. He’s from Ghana. And Frank says, “It’s time to let our legislators know that we gave them the facility to serve the nation and to not loot our cash and stay posh lives whereas voters are ingesting soiled water and education beneath bushes.” After which he says, “the youth of Africa must get up.” Now, you are additionally a comparatively younger politician. What do you say about this?
Wine: Properly, I’d say it’s aptly put, however that our brother, certainly, we imagine in servant management. We imagine that the time has come when the leaders are true servants and the individuals are the true masters of their future. It’s time not solely to say it, however to point out it and assert it to the leaders, the politicians, to know that they serve within the curiosity of the frequent folks.
They’re elevated to these places of work and it ought to be within the pursuits of their folks.
It is unlucky that in lots of components of Africa, particularly in Uganda, being ready of energy or place of governance, authorities has been lowered to self-aggrandizement, to self-enrichment, which should cease and which is able to cease. And that may solely cease when the younger folks of Africa basically, and Uganda particularly, truly rise as much as the event and assert they aren’t solely verbally however virtually.
Shoo: Properly, you say that the younger folks of Africa must stand up, however do you could have any recommendations on how they will actually get entangled in politics? As a result of we heard within the debate that many say that they’re afraid of really being harassed.
Wine: It’s true that this harassment, when the younger folks of Africa stand up and demand for what’s rightfully theirs and demand for accountability, it’s harmful. However it’s much more harmful to be docile. It is extra harmful to be silent. The younger folks of Africa are damned in the event that they stand up and they’re extra damned in the event that they sit down.
So, both manner, there’s just one possibility for the folks, the younger folks of Africa, is to rise as much as the event.
We’re glad that there are international locations, international locations like Ghana, international locations like South Africa, international locations like Botswana and others the place there may be comparatively empowered democracy. However even international locations like Uganda, the place there’s a semblance of democracy, each single window of, , elevating the facility of the folks ought to and have to be used. And that’s the reason we’ve been encouraging the younger folks, not solely right here in Uganda, however in Africa, to get entangled within the politics of their international locations, whether or not by standing for the elections or by truly voting or mobilizing their fellow younger folks to do what they will to affect from their factors of power and factors of affect, to see that the trajectory of their politics strikes in direction of their profit. This may be achieved. It has been achieved earlier than.
As soon as upon a time, all of the democracies that we glance as much as have been presided over by tyrants. I am going to give an instance the place my good buddy, our president, George Weah, in Liberia is presiding over a rustic. As soon as upon a time, there was a terror there. As soon as upon a time, there have been tyrants even in Ghana, a democracy. I imply, we have a look at Ghana as a beacon of democracy. However as soon as upon a time, there was a riot there. So, it’s what the younger folks, and particularly the younger folks, it’s what they do for his or her international locations that flip these international locations into what they ultimately change into.
Shoo: So, you could have given some optimistic examples there, but when we have a look at different international locations, even when younger folks get extra concerned in politics, it doesn’t suggest that they will change the established order. We nonetheless have many aged males who’ve been in energy for years. Should you have a look at Paul Biya in Cameroon or we’ve Obiang in Equatorial Guinea. So, is there any method to make these folks hand over energy? I imply, you could have tried and also you failed.
Wine: Properly, I’ll inform you this, my sister, that not all the pieces that’s confronted is modified instantly, however nothing is modified with out it being confronted. So, it is necessary for us to know that it takes folks standing up. I do not have a look at ours as a failure, even when our democracy has been disrespected, even when the folks gained an election after which Museveni, utilizing the army, disrespected the desire of the folks and introduced himself winner. I have to inform you that we largely gained as a result of after we win over the minds of the folks, then we’ve gained one of many nice black folks.
Marcus Garvey informed us that to liberate the our bodies of males, we should liberate the minds of males. As soon as upon a time right here in Uganda, younger folks have been utterly disconnected from the politics of their nation, together with myself.
You understand, I am 39 at present, however solely 4 years in the past I used to be only a easy artist with lengthy dreadlocks and utterly disconnected from the governance of my nation and from the accountability that I used to be sharing with 44 million others. So, on my rise, I noticed that I impressed many others to work now and sooner or later. So, on this pursuit of democracy, we’re satisfied that it’s not going to be a dash, goes to be a marathon. We have fun each win, however we proceed pushing on realizing it is not going to be an in a single day factor, however in the end it should get there. We all know that justice and democracy aren’t issues that we are able to get simply. However we all know that these are issues that may be received.
Shoo: So what’s subsequent while you’re operating that marathon, I imply, the election outcomes have been introduced, Yoweri Museveni has once more been introduced because the president of your nation. Are you going to run for president once more?
Wine: We’re not solely operating for president. I mentioned it even earlier than the campaigns, that we all know that the democracy in Uganda has been sapped. We all know that every one establishments have been disempowered. Yeah, in Uganda, Normal Museveni is the chief. He’s the judiciary and he’s the parliament. However nonetheless, we’ve the folks.
And for each alternative that we get, we make the most of. We went into this election as a part of our battle. And having completed that part, no less than we achieved a number of issues amongst them one: We have been capable of expose Normal Museveni and these dictatorial tendencies, which was not the case a lot earlier.
We all know that the world has been Uganda as a standard democracy. They have been Museveni as a democrat. In fact, he had largely succeeded in hoodwinking the event companions and the remainder of the world. We have been capable of present your entire world what Uganda is and what the Museveni ruling is.
And as you could have famous, most of the officers which were concerned within the disrespect of democracy, vote rigging and human rights abuses, they’ve had sanctions and extra sanctions are coming. Normal Museveni got here to the Worldwide Felony Courtroom. Him and his son, who heads the army, who has presided over the murders of lots of of individuals right here in Uganda. And we hope to get sanctions from the Worldwide Felony Courtroom as effectively.
So, we all know that dictators do not simply go by a click on of a finger. We have a look at historical past. We noticed how lengthy, how lengthy a time and the way a lot effort it took for the folks of Libya to outlive Gaddafi, for the folks of Zimbabwe to outlive Mugabe, however the folks of Sudan to beat Bashir, for the folks of Egypt to beat Hosni Mubarak, and plenty of different locations in Africa and the world. So, we have a look at these examples and know that similar to we’re informed by Mandela, it appears not possible till it is achieved. So, this appears to this appears not possible within the eyes of a pessimist, however within the eyes of an optimist like me, I see that we’ve some wins. However once more, we have to work even more durable to get to the promised land.
Shoo: All proper, Bobi Wine thanks a lot for that optimistic message and thanks for becoming a member of us at present.
Wine: Thanks for having me. Respect.